DES MOINES, Iowa — Vivek Ramaswamy repeatedly described former President Donald Trump as “wounded” and said he was the best candidate to lead the MAGA movement forward Wednesday, as he makes a final attempt to sway Republican voters still enthusiastic about Trump.

The comments, which Ramaswamy made in a joint interview with NBC News and the Des Moines Register, are part of a complicated balancing act the candidate is trying to strike ahead of the Iowa caucuses: praising Trump and his policies, while suggesting he could push them farther or implement them better — and also saying that Trump can’t win the election because of forces lined up against him, leaving Ramaswamy as the best choice for Trump fans.

“They don’t have on me what they have on him,” Ramaswamy said when asked why he would fare better than Trump while running against the same “system.” “You can just look right now. They’ve got four different wars they’ve waged on this man,” he added, referring among other things to Trump’s indictments and the 14th Amendment challenges to his ballot access in some states.

Ramaswamy, who has pledged to sit out of any primary race in states that are trying to have Trump removed from the ballot, including Maine and Colorado, believes he has “tried my best and gone to the fullest extent I can” to support Trump in his ballot access fight.

“I have deep concerns as an American that this system is going to take him out of contention,” he said, adding: “If we open our eyes to reality, I think that there is an unstoppable force attempting to move what they view as an unmovable object.”

Ramaswamy has also criticized Trump on some policies in recent days, including his focus on a Southern border wall, and he said he’d divest his holdings as president, unlike Trump. But largely, he has painted himself as a supporter of the former president and his movement, which has made it difficult to break through in a GOP contest that also includes Trump.

In the interview, Ramaswamy also defended his repeated sharing of fringe theories about the Jan. 6 riots and other events, as well as his recent endorsement by former Rep. Steve King, his views on what he called the left’s redefinition of the term “white supremacy,” and his pledge to pardon Trump if he’s elected president.

In December’s NBC News/Des Moines Register/Mediacom poll, Ramaswamy had 5% support from likely Republican caucusgoers, well behind Trump’s field-leading 51%. More recent polling data also shows Ramaswamy still hovering in the single digits. 

“In many senses, I support Donald Trump and his legacy as U.S. president,” Ramaswamy said when asked how he can attract voters who like Trump. “I respect what his contributions are to this country. But when making the choice of who’s going to lead our America First movement to the next level — that’s a separate choice.

“I do think we’re in the middle of a kind of cold cultural war in this country, between those of us who love the United States of America, and a fringe minority who hates this country and what we stand for,” Ramaswamy continued. “And when it comes to selecting a commander in chief, a general, to lead us to victory in that war, I think I’m best positioned to do it — with fresh legs, as a leader who is not yet wounded in that war.”

Ramaswamy also said that Trump had allowed himself to get “duped” in Washington, leading to some policy proposals not getting implemented, like the mass firing of federal employees.

“I think it takes two things to actually get this right,” he said. “One is an outsider who can break the system when necessary. I bring that, Trump brings that too. But it also takes an outsider who knows and deeply understands the law and the Constitution of this country. I think in many ways, this managerial class in the swamp, they duped Donald Trump.”

“They duped Trump in a way that they won’t be duping me,” Ramaswamy added later.

Ramaswamy defends airing of fringe theories, Steve King endorsement

In addition to his proposals on the economy, foreign relations and other issues, Ramaswamy has ramped up his focus over the past month on claims including that the Jan. 6 riot was an inside job, that the kidnapping plot against Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer was fully a product of government entrapment, and other unfounded narratives. 

“I’m sharing my true convictions. And I think if we want to revive our constitutional republic, we deserve a government that tells the people the truth again,” said Ramaswamy, whose campaign slogan is “Truth.”

Ramaswamy believes uncovering the “truth” behind government-related conspiracy theories is a top priority for voters, even if polls don’t show them as a top voter priority.

“What really is important to many voters, I believe, is a government that trusts them with the hard truth again,” said Ramaswamy.

On Tuesday evening, Ramaswamy received an endorsement King, the former Iowa congressman who lost his seat in 2020 to a GOP primary challenger amid backlash over racist remarks. He also earned condemnation from members of his own party for comments he once made about whether humans would exist if not for babies born as a result of rape and incest.

Despite the controversies that surround King, Ramaswamy says he’s “proud to have his endorsement.”

“I think it helps to have his endorsement. In the sense that it helps to have anybody who’s aligned with your own views and vision to say publicly that they support you,” Ramaswamy said.

He and King have bonded over protest against the potential use of eminent domain to build carbon capture pipelines on private land in Iowa.

Ramaswamy says he doesn’t believe King made comments attributed to him in a 2019 New York Times story. “I take Steve King’s words over the New York Times that he didn’t say those things,” asserted Ramaswamy. In 2019, King tweeted that his remarks were “mischaracterized” and taken out of context.

Asked if he agrees with the essence of King’s comments, Ramaswamy said he took issue broadly with how “a lot of the left has defined white supremacy to include things like punctuality or the written word.” 

“If somebody wants to define white supremacy for me, then we can actually have a serious conversation about it,” said Ramaswamy. 

‘Right thing to do’ to pardon Trump if elected

Ramaswamy has also been very clear that, if he was elected president, he would pardon Trump, who is currently facing criminal indictments in four jurisdictions, with trials aligning with key election dates.

“I think it’s the right thing to do to unite this country and move our country forward,” he told NBC News. 

Ramaswamy said he would not support Republicans standing down investigations surrounding President Joe Biden and the business dealings of his son Hunter Biden.

“With respect to specifically what’s going on in Ukraine, the very country that paid a $5 million alleged bribe to Hunter Biden,” Ramaswamy claimed, which he said may have affected “our foreign policy.”

He said the investigation by congressional Republicans against President Biden should continue: “I think we need to go all the way to the very bottom of it. I do think it’s impacting policy.” 

‘Whoever wins the election through a fair and free process, I will accept that result’

When asked if he would accept election results of Biden winning re-election in 2024, Ramaswamy said,  “I don’t think that’s how things are gonna go, first of all.” But he added, “If that’s how it goes through a free and fair election system, then, obviously, I will accept the results of an electoral process.” 

Still, Ramaswamy was quick to preach that the United States needs “an electoral process we can trust and believe in.” Often on the campaign trail, Ramaswamy lists out to voters what he believes is an ideal scenario: single-day voting, making election day a national holiday, matching voters’ IDs to the voter file, and making English the only language available on ballots are requirements he sees as a solution. The patchwork of state election systems as they exist right now are very different, including significant early voting in many states and a wide range of different voter identity verification systems.

“Whoever wins the election through a fair and free process, I will accept that result,” Ramaswamy said. “And I am committed to making sure that we have a fair and free process in the year ahead. And I expect that we will, because of efforts of people like me to make sure of it.”

Source: | This article originally belongs to Nbcnews.com

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